RE: around 1600 English galleon _ Airfix - 1:72 Golden Hind - PLASTIC - conversion to 406 ton Elizabethan galleon in 1:100 scale - 2

Dear Kirill,

The red shade you used is a madder red, which is a very common color today - but did it also exist in earlier times?

In the Middle Ages and early modern times, red tones for painting a ship were usually ocher tones.

On expensive ships (e.g. Vasa) they also used minium, which covered the color range from orange to vermilion. Vermilion was the pigment, they found at the bulwarks of the Vasa.

Madder red, on the other hand, was a vegetable dye used to dye textiles.

There are also (modern) authors who mention oxblood as a cheap way to paint ships. However, I don't know anything conclusive about this.

Cheers, Alexander

Greetings a respected community!
recently I've made some small changes in my project , in the continuation of the story, so to speak -
* slightly increased forecastle height
*raised the beackhead deck - in principle, by this , I've just returned to the original composition of the kit ...
* and finaly I've refused to reproduce the step in the forward part of the main gun deck ... something, well, it "did not go to me" despite my love of of Elizabeth Jonas galleon model,
either on the famous Baker's galleon drawing , and then judging by the drawings and paintings of that period, the step in the nose is not an indispensable attribute at all, as an example -
two pictures, with a step (Baker's Galleon) and without ...
But in the stern - as far as I know, this deck break was present at many pictures of the galleons and this break of the aft deck , even could be traced up to the middle of the 17th century ....
therefore I left my initial idea to show it ...
*In the on -board decor I added Tudor's colors - white and green ...
So far...
Wish all of you all the best!

Zitat von Foxtrott im Beitrag #16

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Dear Kirill,

The red shade you used is a madder red, which is a very common color today - but did it also exist in earlier times?

In the Middle Ages and early modern times, red tones for painting a ship were usually ocher tones.

On expensive ships (e.g. Vasa) they also used minium, which covered the color range from orange to vermilion. Vermilion was the pigment, they found at the bulwarks of the Vasa.

Madder red, on the other hand, was a vegetable dye used to dye textiles.

There are also (modern) authors who mention oxblood as a cheap way to paint ships. However, I don't know anything conclusive about this.

Cheers, Alexander

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Dear Kirill

I also saw that in the picture of Vroom the colors are dark and bluish. Here Vroom has taken the shady lighting situation in the picture into account.

A artistic painter had a wide range of colors because he didn't have to worry about costs and weather conditions for his oil paintings.
In contrast not every color was suitable for painting larger areas on a ship. This is in modern times possible with synthetic colors. The prices of the “old” pigments may be estimated at Kremer Pigmente. But the prices cannot necessarily be transferred to the old days, as some colors can now be reproduced using original chemical compositions and expensive transport routes are no longer necessary.

Rembrandt's colors were the following:
Rembrandt.jpg - Bild entfernt (keine Rechte)

The color research on Vasa's figures has identified a number of pigments, all of which can be seen in a display case in the museum in Stockholm:
Pigmente.jpg - Bild entfernt (keine Rechte)

Ab Hoving / Cor Emke have included the following color chart for the colors of the 17th century in their plan set / book “The Ships of Abel Tasman”:
Hovin Emke Farben.jpg - Bild entfernt (keine Rechte)

A very good book on the subject is Daniel V. Thompson “The Materials and Techniques of Medieval Painting” from 1956.

Cheers, Alexander

Good day,
Dear Alexander!
Great Thanks for your reply and supplied value information, everything I ve been try to find today in the internet , but didn't succesed too much, now You gave it all in one place! Just Great! Thanks a Lot!
Wish You all the Best!
Kirill

what are those symbols above Hennegat?
E, R, a crown, the Tudor rose and the rest?

Good day bela,
Tudor (Elizabeth 1 in this case) symbols they are :

Good day, respected community,
A few steps forward , reporting what was done during past weeks... and will continue later on...
All the Best!
Kirill
Ups, Can't load picture here, link for the same picture below
https://karopka.ru/bitrix/components/bit...php?fid=2784979

Greetings all,
A small continuation - placed shields, chess-tree , cat -head , clamp for main course sheet, tried on gun port covers at place, anchor beam, added 4th barhout...

Hi Kirill,

looks very fine.

I would reconsider the color highlighting of the wales. The Vasa didn't have that and Geoff Hunt's painting of the Mary Rose and another ship (1545) doesn't show any color either.

Cheers Alexander

Good day,
Alexander,
Thanks for your comments, yes...this is the area I was thinking about, I was impressed this image of the english galleon, mostly by this image...
and there , on this picture, wales looks , colored red brown or something ?
or not?
or it just seems to me... but this is only one evidance, and You are right, all other sources, as far as I know, demonstrate unpainted wales which looks was the common rules for that time...
But this is only stage of imagination, and I can change everything easily ...:)
What do You think about this fragment, wales colored here or not?
All the Best!
Kirill

A couple of other galleons and galeasse in the lower part of the same picture,
and one image of english galleons from another picture...
What I could say , most probably, only upper rails used to be painted in contrast bright colors, lower wales - some of them looks like have contrast dark colors , sometimes they looks like have not been painted at all or these dark " colors"of wales were added in purpose to highlites presence of these construction elements on the ship hull?
I think, I could leave" red" for the upper rails, and all lower wales need to repaint in brown or to leave them unpainted at all...
Thanks again for your value remarks, will revert later on with more variants...

Hi Kirill,

Because the images have a rather naive character, I think they are only of limited use for research. Archaeological finds and newer scientific findings are probably better.

If you like to paint the wales I think black is still the most likely. Red was too expensive and was not so steady as pigment for use at such exposed parts of the ship.

Cheers, Alexander

Good day,
Alexander,
Agree with your opinion...
I will rearrange lower wales coloring, revert later on with results...upper rails, if I could call them such, will be left red colored... my idea about this model , in general, was ,to use much more gilding of all decorations than were allowed to be historic accurate in this respect... so... it would be kind of imagination work of elizabethian galleon than real accurate representation model of elizabethian galleon.. :)))